I was in the middle of having a debate on a Facebook group called “I bet I can find a million people who DON’T
want David Cameron as our PM” in a comment stream on a link to my new blog
which has a re-blogging of my open letter to the three main political party
leaders from this very blog. The person,
Sue ‘Kitty’ Jones (a blogger in her own right and probably with a bigger
audience than I have), criticised my piece saying that it would be impossible
to get the major parties to work together.
I pointed out that, in post-WW2 Britain, we had a consensus amongst the
parties so it proves that it is
possible. The trouble is, even though I
tried to point out that all the political ideologies have some good features,
she ignored my caveat that I meant the pure ideologies not the partisan versions
being used by the political parties of today.
Ms Jones countered my argument that stripping tribalism out of politics
because it achieves nothing (as any good one administration does is immediately
undone by the other administration when the opposing party takes power).with a
barrage of pointless attacks saying ‘human rights abuses’ and such are parts of
Tory ideological makeup and how can there be anything good about them. I pointed out that she was using partisan ideology examples to counter
an anti-partisan approach that I was trying to put forward.
I would have continued the conversation but I found myself unable to
return to the group page. I assume that
this was orchestrated by Ms Jones herself because she couldn’t grasp the simple
difference between what she was talking about and what I was talking about. You would think, as I had also posted links
to two other re-blogged postings from this blog outlining the need for
political change and an idea how that might work, that she would have been able
to distinguish the difference but she obviously doesn’t like to read any other
viewpoint than her own, is a staunch Labour supporter and believes that a vote
for Labour is the only way forward (she said as much in our conversation).
How do I know that Ms Jones either blocked me herself or had me blocked
from the group? Let’s just say that I
have more than one Facebook account and I got in with that one just fine. So much for it being an ‘open’ group.
It seems that, with people as blinkered as Ms Jones, my efforts to
nurture political change in the UK will be forever stymied because, with her
attitude, the status quo is all we’ll ever have here and the UK will be forever
doomed to remain in a cycle of swinging between the Left and Right sides of the
political spectrum being in power, leading to political stagnation and a
reinforcement of the status quo.
I don’t know why I bother.
I suppose the only good thing that came out of it is that, for once, I’m
being branded (albeit silently) a Right-winger which should please the critics
of my work on Your Thurrock who always branded me a Left-winger.
http://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/manufacturing-consensus-the-end-of-history-and-the-partisan-man/
ReplyDeleteIf you attack members of a group, rather than their views, then expect to be blocked by the admins
ReplyDeleteI did not attack you, Ms Jones, I made the observation that you are blinkered and that you wilfully ignored my attempts to put you straight on your erroneous assumptions. I was blocked because that group does not like to hear anything that doesn't fit into their own ideological biases.
DeleteIf you did not block me yourself, I apologise (although I don't feel the need to) but as there were only three people in the discussion at that time (me, you and a guy called Glen) and Glen was only peripherally involved, it is not such a leap that either you blocked me or someone did it at your behest.
I know you don't like what I have put here and that is your prerogative but that doesn't make what I have said here wrong.
And, as you can see, unlike the Facebook group we were discussing matters in, I allow your comments to be posted here without being edited, modified or moderated because, unlike that group, believe in freedom of speech and open debate.
And actually, this blog clearly indicates the decision to remove you from the group was the right one, since this has descended into further personal attack. The points raised in the group is that many people feel that there ought to be more partisanship, not less, with the parties being clearly demarcated and offering alternative policies. This is why I support labour. http://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/political-parties-they-are-not-all-as-bad-as-each-other-at-all/
DeleteI am not attacking you, Ms Jones. Just reporting the facts as I see them.
DeleteYou cannot offer a VIABLE , workable alternative, yet criticise my views as 'blinkered'.This is hardly the basis of'open' debate
ReplyDeleteAs I have already stated on Facebook, I am trying to work on a viable alternative to the system we have now. I am open to anyone's views on making that a reality but your view is blinkered by a pro-Labour bias that borders on a psychological disorder.
DeleteYOU don't even bother to listen to any view that threatens your beloved Labour party. I have no party affiliation so I look at the best aspects of each pure ideology and attempt to forge a new way forward but you are stuck in the need for political tribalism and that Labour is the only way forward which it isn't.
If you were a little more open-minded then you would try to create a political system that is free from tribalism and corruption rather than trying to prop up a system that will lead to nothing but stagnation and the kind of horror we are living in now.
The blog here IS a personal attack and hardly about promoting open discussion. You dismiss alternative views to your own as 'blinkered',and thati s also NOT indicative of a person open to genuine debate
ReplyDeleteNo, it is reporting the facts about being in a debate with you in a group and being kicked out of the supposedly 'open' group. Do keep up, dear.
DeleteI actually like some of the Socialist ideals and have, in my life as a blogger for Your Thurrock, been branded a Socialist and even a Communist so your assertion doesn't hold water. You fail to see the better points of other pure ideologies and that makes you blinkered.
Furthermore, in a group, other members also have to be considered, and you attacked other members
ReplyDeleteI attacked no one in the group. I may have said that they were blinkered like you and I may have tried to point out that, like you, they were missing/ignoring the points I was trying to make but I NEVER attacked anyone.
DeleteIt seems you can't even get those facts right, Ms Jones.
Shall I bring a witness?If you call group members 'blinkered' because they disagree with you, that IS a personal attack. You didn't engage in debate, you simply called other people names. Then, when you are blocked for that behaviour, you then write a personal blog attack on me. Bravo. How very constructive. Not
DeleteI said you were blinkered not because you disagreed with me but because, as much as I tried to show you where you were misconstruing what I was saying, you weren't paying attention to what I was saying. I didn't call you names or anyone else for that matter. This blog, as I have already stated, is me reporting the facts about what happened as one would do in a diary. If you can't accept that and don't like what I say then why do you keep coming back?
DeleteThe decision to block you from I bet was a joint decision between more than one admin because of your behaviour and refusal to engage in constructive debate with other members, and not just me, you chose instead to continually disparage others. As for the 'facts',you clearly have some problem with observing those. Or selective attention to details. Either way, of this is the unstable, unacceptable childish foot stomping and sulky behaviour that passes for your idea of debate, I don't want you in any of my other groups, either, hassling members.
ReplyDeleteI did not disparage you. I was trying to make you see where you were making a mistake in your understanding of what I was getting across. You were being the most blinkered obtuse person I have ever had the displeasure of trying to explain anything to because you just wouldn't get off your 'Labour is good, Labour is the only way' high horse long enough to pay attention to what I was trying to say.
DeleteYou don't like me, fine. You don't like the fact that I am an open-minded person trying to create a group of people who might just have the balls to try to create a system that wipes out the need of the pathetic and dangerous tribalism that infects the current system because then your precious Labour Party wouldn't be around for you to worship.
As you can see, every one of your comments is still here for everyone to read and they will remain so but from this moment on any of your comments will be deleted because I'm fed up of discussing issues that are long dead and buried as far as I'm concerned.
Go to your corner of cyberspace and write your blogs and I'll stay in my corner actually trying to achieve something. Deal?